Acknowledgment, validation, and curiosity – meeting grief with these three elements is crucial in creating supportive, culturally relevant grief support environments for children and adults. Dr. Allen Lipscomb has spent his career researching, designing, and implementing anti-racist interventions that directly support not just grief from death loss, but also the grief from racialized trauma experienced by those in the Black community.  

Dr. Lipscomb shares his personal experiences with grief, including the death of his grandmother when he was a child and being wrongly accused of a crime in his adolescence. He also discusses the roots of his work as a clinician, researcher, and Professor of Social Work, including the culturally specific ways he engages with clients that prioritize choice and naming racism and racialized trauma that play a role in how people grieve.  

We discuss:

• How childhood experiences of death, racism, and wrongful accusation shaped Dr. Allen Lipscomb’s understanding of grief, trauma, and identity  
• The impact of racialized trauma on how Black youth and men experience, express, and silence grief  
• Why naming experiences like racism, PTSD, and loss can be profoundly important and validating  
• What culturally responsive grief support looks like, including storytelling, oral histories, grief mapping, somatic awareness, and community-centered care  
• How grief supporters can avoid rescuer dynamics and instead create invitational, choice-centered spaces to explore grief 
• The importance of preparing mental health providers, schools, and communities to offer anti-racist, culturally relevant grief support for Black youth and families 

Allen E. Lipscomb, PsyD, LCSW, Professor of Social Work, Associate Chair, Director of MSW Online Program; and Director of Minority Male Mentoring (M3) and Student Success Allies (SSA) program at California State University Northridge in the Department of Social Work. Dr. Lipscomb is a clinical psychologist and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the State of California. Dr. Lipscomb specializes in providing anti-oppressive and inclusive mental health services to individuals, children, youth, couples, and families of color. His areas of research are centered on the psychiatric epidemiology among racialized and marginalized individuals who have experienced trauma (i.e., complex trauma, traumatic-grief, and race-based trauma). Dr. Lipscomb has conducted numerous qualitative research studies on racialized Black identified men across the Black/African Diaspora exploring their grief, loss, and complex-trauma experiences. His pedagogy is centered on cultural anti-oppressive and clinically responsive inclusive practices with communities of color. Dr. Lipscomb maintains a private practice; conducts local, national, and international trainings; is a consultant/coach, and keynote speaker. Dr. Lipscomb has numerous peer reviewed journal articles that centers Black male grief experiences and has a published five books all centered around Black men and boys grief, trauma, and healing journeys. 

Resources mentioned in our conversation:

• Reframing Grief for Black Students: A Qualitative Analysis of Grief Resilient Affirming Care through Empowerment (G.R.A.C.E) Training 
• My Grandmother’s Hands by Resmaa Menakem 

Connect with Dr. Lipscomb

• Website 
• IG @dralipscomb 

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, Jana is joined by N’keya Peters-Camille, LCSW, RYT® 200, a social worker, certified Grief Yoga teacher, facilitator for e-motion grief meet ups, and creator of Hope: A One Line A Day Journal for the Bereaved. N’keya shares the story of her mother, Hope - a woman she describes as her soulmate - who died of pancreatic cancer in 2021 at the age of 46. 

N’keya reflects on growing up alongside her mother, witnessing her overcome immense challenges, and experiencing firsthand what it meant to be deeply seen, supported, and loved. After her mother’s death, N’keya found herself navigating grief without strong cultural or community rituals to hold her. In response, she created her own network of support through grief counseling, retreats, movement practices, and eventually, offering those same resources to others - particularly within her Afro-Caribbean and African American communities. 

The conversation explores caregiving during the pandemic, the absence of end-of-life conversations, and what it means to grieve while parenting young children. N’keya shares how she spoke honestly with her three-year-old son about death, how grief continues to evolve five years later, and how she makes space for both sorrow and joy - especially on complex days like Mother’s Day. 

N’keya also speaks candidly about pregnancy loss and infertility following her mother’s death and how those grief experiences intersected. She describes how her mother’s voice continues to guide her—in her work, her parenting, and her sense of self—and how she honors that connection by living fully, while also deeply grieving. 

Note: this episode mentions childhood sexual assault. Please take care while listening.  

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• Grieving the death of a parent while raising young children  
• The impact of limited cultural grief rituals and creating your own  
• Movement, community, and storytelling as grieving practices
• Navigating Mother’s Day while holding multiple losses  
• Pregnancy loss, infertility, and layered grief experiences  
• Maintaining an ongoing bond with someone who has died  

N'keya Peters-Camille, LCSW, RYT® 200, is a Social Worker and Grief Educator who integrates clinical support with somatic healing. Her work is deeply rooted in her own grief history—from navigating the death of her beloved mother, Hope, to the profound challenges of miscarriage and the complexities of IVF and IUI. 

As an African American woman born and raised in Brooklyn with Caribbean roots, N'keya is dedicated to bringing meaningful grief support to her community. Certified in Grief Yoga, she believes that grief is often too heavy to carry alone and too deep to process through words alone. In addition to her private practice, she serves as a volunteer with E-Motion, facilitating 6–8 week grief movement groups. By blending clinical social work with somatic movement and meditation, N'keya provides a "soft landing" for those walking the path of loss—helping them bridge the gap between mind and body, find their breath again, and carry their loved ones' legacies forward. 

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Kailey Bradley about support for grieving a death loss, but also the more overlooked non-death losses, including chronic illness, infertility, shifting identities, and the futures we imagined but don’t get to live. 

Dr. Bradley is a clinician and educator who specializes in working with children and families navigating grief and illness. Kailey shares her experiences growing up with chronic illness and being diagnosed with premature ovarian failure at age 12, and how those layered losses affected her at different life stages. We explore what it means to “process” grief, why anger and big questions deserve space, and how grief can show up in ways we don’t always recognize. We also discuss how being diagnosed later in life with autism spectrum disorder shifted how Kailey understands grief – hers and those she supports.  

We discuss:

• Why grief care can be seen as preventative mental health care  
• What Kailey learned working with teens in juvenile detention about unprocessed loss  
• How children express grief through play, behavior, and the body  
• Supporting neurodivergent kids and teens, including those with autism  
• The importance of choice and autonomy in grief support  
• What makes a grief-informed community and why we need more of them  
• The collective grief of the pandemic and how little space we’ve made to process it  

This conversation is both practical and expansive, offering ideas for parents, caregivers, educators, clinicians, and anyone who wants to better understand grief in all its forms. 

Connect with Dr. Kailey Bradley

Refuge Counseling: https://allrefuge.com/
The Death & Sex Podcast: https://pod.co/the-death-and-sex-podcast
The Ohio Bereavement Collaborative: https://ohiobc.com/ 

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

Shelby Forsythia is well acquainted with grief. After a series of losses that started in her late teens and culminated in the death of her mother from cancer, Shelby became an expert in avoiding and outrunning her grief. Then, an incident with a stolen wallet broke through that avoidance; in the aftermath of letting those feelings out, she realized she needed to give herself permission to grieve. Since then, Shelby’s done so much in the realm of grief support—as a coach, author, and host of the Grief Grower podcast. Shelby’s newest book, Of Course, I’m Here, Right Now, written for friends, family, and community members, provides answers to the ubiquitous question: “What do I say to someone who is grieving?”

We discuss:

• The “four years of hell” when Shelby experienced multiple losses.
• The stolen wallet incident and the loud, messy grief eruption that followed.
• Why people fear falling into the abyss of grief if they start crying.
• Three stories people who are grieving tell themselves.
• The three phrases that help dismantle those unhelpful stories.
• What people said after Shelby’s mom died vs. what they said after her best friend Tami died.
• How to start the conversation with someone who is grieving.

Connect with Shelby Forsythia: https://www.shelbyforsythia.com/
Her latest book, Of Course, I’m Here, Right Now, is out on 3.31.26.

Read transcript

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/

What does grief look like when you lose your wife, two daughters, your home, and nearly everything you own - all in a single night? In this episode we talk with Michael Reed, a husband, father, and author whose life was forever changed when a wildfire swept through his community, taking the lives of his wife Constance, his older daughter Chloe, his youngest, Lily, their pets, and reducing their home to ashes. Nearly a decade later, Michael shares about the darkness he fell into, who was there to hold him and his son up, the ways he stays connected to his wife and daughters, and how he's re-engaged with life through writing and helping others.  

Michael Reed is the author of The Million Stages of Grief, a self-published book born from years of middle-of-the-night writing as he tried to make sense of catastrophic loss. He also became an unexpected public face of his community’s tragedy - a role he has since transformed into a mission of talking openly about grief, faith, and learning to live again. 

In this episode:

• Michael shares vivid memories of his daughters: Chloe’s extraordinary compassion and Lily’s unforgettable sass and spirit. 
• What it’s like to lose not only the people you love but every physical trace of them - and how Michael keeps their memory close without tangible reminders. 
• How his son Nicholas became a teacher for Michael in how to grieve.  
• His experience with EMDR therapy and what acceptance means to him.  
• The origin of The Million Stages of Grief: how raw, unedited Facebook posts led to a blog, then to a self-published book. 
• Why the five stages of grief didn’t work for Michael - and how he came to understand that grief can move through a million stages in a single day. 
• A raw, honest account of his anger at God after the fire. 
• What it was like to become the unwilling public spokesperson for a community’s tragedy, and how he has reclaimed that platform on his own terms. 
• His core message: loss is loss, no matter who or what you’ve lost — and using your own hurt to help others is how we change the world. 

Connect with Michael: 

Website - https://themillionstages.com/ 
Books - https://themillionstages.com/books 
IG - https://www.instagram.com/reedstrong2020 

Transcript

Want to learn more about supporting children and teens who are grieving? Sign up for our online courses here: https://classes.dougy.org/ 

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we talk with death & grief care professional, educator, and cultural advocate Joél Simone, also known as The Grave Woman. 

Joél shares the story behind a childhood drawing that declared her future as “the grave woman,” and how that early curiosity about death grew into a lifelong vocation in funeral service, grief education, and cultural competency. Drawing from decades of experience, Joél reflects on the spiritual, cultural, and embodied dimensions of grief, including what she’s learned by listening closely to families, children, and traditions that are too often overlooked.  

Joél also talks about her work as founder of the Multicultural Death & Grief Care Academy, including immersive learning experiences that center history, ritual, land, and lineage. Throughout the conversation, she invites us to rethink what ritual looks like and how tending to culture can provide grounding and support for grief. 

We discuss:

• How rituals - inherited and improvised - can be a form of medicine 
• What the funeral industry still needs to understand about serving Black and African American families 
• The importance of cultural humility, proactive learning, and not treating communities as monoliths 
• How children experience death and mourning from their literal, physical perspective and what adults often miss 
• The role of land, ancestry, and cultural preservation in grief, particularly within Gullah Geechee communities 
• Why culture itself can be a powerful container for grief and remembrance 

Connect with Joél Simone:

Website: www.thegravewoman.com
The Multicultural Death & Grief Care Academy Workshops & Classes
The Death & Grief Talk Podcast

IG: https://www.instagram.com/thegravewoman
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thegravewoman/

When Matt Fogelson's father died of lung cancer during his senior year of college, he turned to music to express what words couldn't - rage, self-loathing, and grief so profound he didn't know where to put it. 

In this conversation, Matt - author of the new memoir Restrung - talks about the silence that surrounded his father's terminal illness, the vacuum left by an absent but beloved parent, and how grunge music (especially Soundgarden and Pearl Jam) created space for him to feel what was hard to put into words. 

Matt shares how his Aunt Wendy became his unlikely guide, why he wore his father's suits to work for years trying to feel close to him, and the breakthrough moment when Pearl Jam's "Release" helped him shift his relationship with his father's memory and his grief. 

We also discuss how grief shaped his approach to parenting, why he sang a Grateful Dead song to his son every night for 14 years, and the three songs he wishes he could share with his father now. 

Resources

• Matt's memoir Restrung (released February 3, 2026) 
• Matt's Substack and music blog (Fine Tuning) 
• More at dougy.org 

Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families. 

When Christina Babich’s partner, Alex, died suddenly from a brain aneurysm while they were visiting his family in Italy, her world shattered in more ways than one. In addition to the grief of losing the person she loved and the future they were building together, Christina was also left to navigate the aftermath of a deeply traumatic event - one that profoundly impacted her nervous system, sense of safety, and identity. 

In this episode, Christina shares what it was like to grieve a sudden, “out-of-order” death while also navigating the derealization, hypervigilance, and other ways the trauma of his death affected her. She talks about how being a “quasi widow” shaped the care and recognition she received and why platitudes about resilience and post-traumatic growth can sometimes feel alienating rather than supportive. 

Christina also reflects on how her personal experience shaped her work as a psychologist specializing in grief and trauma, including the role of Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT), the pressure placed on people who are grieving to “transform” their pain, and the importance of being witnessed by someone who truly understands. 

We discuss

• The difference between grief and trauma - and how they often coexist
• Derealization, PTSD, and nervous system responses after a sudden death
• What Christina means by “quasi-widow” 
• Why platitudes about strength and growth can feel harmful
• How Cognitive Processing Therapy was helpful for her
• Grieving lost identities, futures, and imagined lives 
• Finding connection with others who can relate 
• Living day-to-day when the future feels overwhelming 

Connect with Christina 
Website: https://www.christinababich.com/ 
Substack: christinababich.substack.com 

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we talk with Adell Coleman about her mother who was killed when Adell was just 24 years old. Adell reflects on the closeness of their relationship and how her mom’s death radically shifted her sense of safety in the world. She shares how the circumstances around her mother’s death, including being the person who found her, has made it difficult to remember how her mom lived, without reliving how she died. 

Adell also talks about what it’s been like raising two daughters who never met their grandmother, but somehow carry her presence in surprising and meaningful ways. She reflects on anniversaries 14 years later, the exhaustion of grief, and how becoming the family “grief expert” interrupted her capacity to engage with her own grief. 

The conversation closes with Adell describing how community, therapy, boundaries, and creative work - including her documentary and podcast, Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love - have helped her find language, connection, and space for her grief. 

 We discuss

• Losing a mother in young adulthood and feeling “not ready” to be an adult
• How violent death and trauma impact grief and memory 
• The challenge of accessing good memories when you are dealing with traumatic imagery 
• Parenting while grieving and helping children connect with a grandparent they never met 
• Anniversaries, emotional exhaustion, and grief over time 
• Becoming the family “grief expert” and having to put off personal grief 
• Finding community after loss and why the right support can take time 
• Creating meaning through storytelling, connection, and creative projects
• Adell’s documentary and her new podcast, Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love 

Connect with Adell
Instagram: @iamadellcoleman 
Podcast: Echoes of Her
Threads: @iamadellcoleman
Documentary: Echoes of Her: To Mom With Love
Substack: On My Momma

What if grief isn’t a journey for us to eventually finish, but more a language we become fluent in? In this first episode of 2026, we talk with writer, storyteller, and social entrepreneur, John Onwuchekwa, whose life was profoundly shaped by the death of his brother Sam in 2015. John shares how Sam’s death altered not just his relationships and priorities, but his understanding of grief itself. 

Rather than framing grief as a journey with an endpoint, John offers a different metaphor: grief as a language that we learn over time, one with past, present, and future tenses. He explores how grief comes through not just in our words, but our bodies, our reflexes, and our relationships, showing up in ways we often don’t consciously choose. 

We discuss:

• The limitations - and harm - of common grief metaphors
• The shifts in John’s priorities and perspective that occurred after Sam died 
• How loneliness often sits at the center of grief 
• The ways grief can show up in our bodies, before our minds understand what’s happening
• Holding grief and hope at the same time 

Connect with John 
Website: https://www.johno.co/  
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jawn_o/?hl=en 
We Go On: https://www.andwegoon.com/ 
Blog: https://www.johno.blog/  
Podcast: Four In The Morning https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...  
Portrait Coffee: https://www.johno.co/ventures#portrait 

It’s our annual holiday episode, this time with Dougy Center Executive Director and TEDx speaker Brennan Wood. Brennan first encountered Dougy Center after her mom, Doris, died of breast cancer three days after Brennan’s 12th birthday. She has since navigated almost four decades of holiday seasons with grief along for the ride. She shares about the early years that were awful; the young-adult years she spent volunteering away from family; and how, as an adult, she’s learned to hold both grief and joy while creating new traditions for her own family. Whether this is your first or 41st holiday season with grief, this conversation offers validation, tangible suggestions, and new ways to think about this time of year.  

We discuss: 

Need additional tips and suggestions for this time of year?

Check out our past episodes and our Holiday Grief Tip Sheet & Worksheet 

When Kyndal Parks’ grandfather died on Black Friday - the day after Thanksgiving – she lost one of her biggest supporters and confidants. While navigating her grief, Kyndal was also navigating life as a college student where she often felt unseen in her grief by faculty and the wider institution. What began as a class assignment turned into a powerful audio piece about loss, legacy, and the urgent need for grief-informed spaces on college campuses, particularly at HBCUs where collective trauma, silence, and resilience intertwine. 

In this conversation, Kyndal shares about her grandfather’s extraordinary life - from his childhood in the 1940s, to living with a disability, to his time as a Black Panther, a gardener, a traveler, and the steady source of love that shaped her into the person she is today. She talks about the traditions they built together, how her grief shows up even from 2,000 miles away, and why vulnerability and community care are essential if we want to build environments where students who are grieving feel supported.  

Kyndal also explores the cultural and historical patterns of grief in Black communities, the pressure to “push through,” and her vision for a world where grief is met with connection, not silence. 

We discuss:

• What made Kyndal’s grandfather such an influential figure 
• How his death reshaped her understanding of family, holidays, and identity
• What grief looked like at her college, and within her family and community
• Why she created her audio piece and what she hopes listeners take from it 
• The need for vulnerability, community support, and grief-informed care at HBCUs and beyond 
• How her grandfather continues to guide her today 

Check out News Ambassadors, the program that helped connect us with Kyndal and her audio piece. 

When Hilary was 18, her oldest sister, Kelly, died from a rare cancer called DSRCT (desmoplastic small round cell tumor). In the same year, Hilary left for college and her parents divorced - three life-altering events that reshaped her relationships, sense of stability, and the early years of adulthood. 

In this episode, we talk about:

• Growing up as the youngest of three sisters and the creative, nurturing bond she shared with Kelly 
• Navigating Kelly’s diagnosis, treatment, and death while still in high school 
• Trying to appear “fine” in college while carrying immense grief 
• The ways her family dynamics shifted after Kelly’s death and her parents’ divorce 
• How grief continued to evolve across developmental stages, from early adulthood into her mid-30s 
• The unexpected moments - like baking bread or bringing home a new pet – that bring new waves of grief 
• How her experience shaped her work as a therapist supporting others in pain 

Hilary also shares what she wishes she had known about grief at 18, how exhausting it can be, and how she learned to make space for grief that shows up differently over time. 

When Cassie arrived at Dougy Center for her first peer grief support group for young adults after her dad died, she sat in the parking lot wondering if she could even walk inside. When she did, she found people her age who understood what it meant to have a parent die - people who would end up shaping her life in ways she never imagined. In this episode, Cassie talks about how grief changed her, what it was like to find community in a peer support group, and how those friendships continue to support her years later. Now, as a volunteer facilitator in a peer grief support group for children, Cassie reflects on what it means to come full circle - turning the care she received into care she now offers others. 

We Discuss: 

• The early days and weeks after her dad's death
• How grief can be physically painful
• Finding connection and laughter in a support group
• Building lifelong friendships with people who "get it"
• Learning to make space for grief on purpose
• The importance of rituals and traditions
• What it's like to return as a volunteer to support children who are grieving
• The unexpected gifts of friendship Cassie's discovered in grief

When someone you know dies suddenly, everything changes in an instant. The world you once knew can feel unfamiliar and unsafe, and finding your way back to even the smallest sense of stability can feel impossible. 

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Jennifer Levin, therapist, educator, podcast host, and author of The Traumatic Loss Workbook: Powerful Skills for Navigating the Grief Caused by a Sudden or Unexpected Death. Jennifer specializes in supporting people grieving sudden or unexpected deaths that can completely upend how we see the world and shift our sense of safety. 

We discuss:

• The differences and overlap between the terms: sudden, unexpected, and traumatic  
• How grief affects the body, mind, and nervous system 
• What it means when the “assumptive world” - our sense of how life should work - is shattered 
• Ways to support yourself when sensory memories of the death are overwhelming 
• How schools and workplaces can better prepare and respond when a community member dies 

About the Guest: 
Dr. Jennifer Levin is a grief therapist, educator, and host of the Untethered podcast. She’s the founder of Traumatic Grief Solutions and the creator of The Traumatic Loss Online Companion Course. Her new book, The Traumatic Loss Workbook, is available now from New Harbinger Publications. 

Resources Mentioned:

• The Traumatic Loss Workbook by Dr. Jennifer Levin 
• The Grieving Brain by Mary-Frances O’Connor 
• I Wasn't Ready to Say Goodbye by Brook Noel, Pamela D Blair PhD
• Dougy Center resources for supporting children, families, and schools: dougy.org 

When Tiriq Rashad, artist, poet, and performer, sits down to write, he’s not just telling his own story - he’s carrying his daughter, his brother, and his mother with him. In this conversation, Tiriq shares the layered ways grief has shaped who he is: from the death of his first child before she was born, to growing up caring for his brother who lived with cerebral palsy and autism, to the sudden death of his mother. 

Through it all, Tiriq’s foundation in caregiving, service, and community continues to guide him - both in his personal life and in his art. His new album, Kiss My Art, is woven through with grief, including themes of regret, forgiveness, and deep unwavering love. Each track on Kiss My Art reminds listeners that grief doesn’t end, it evolves and we evolve with it.  

We talk about:

• How the death of his daughter shapes his life perspective – and his parenting. 
• How caregiving for his brother as a child set him on the path to social work. 
• The trauma and legacy of his mother’s death in a car accident. 
• Choosing to face grief without leaning on vices. 
• Writing and performing as practices of healing. 
• How the death of a public figure can impact those who never even met them. 

Connect with Tiriq Rashad:

• Website: tiriqrashad.com 
• Instagram: @tiriq_rashad 
• No Regrets Official Music Video 

When Tyler Feder was 19, her mom died of cancer, an experience she captured years later in her bestselling graphic memoir Dancing at the Pity Party. In the years since, Tyler has described herself as a “dead mom person” - reflecting just how much of her life was shaped by the death of her mother. But this past winter, Tyler’s dad also died, adding a new aspect to her identity, this time as an adult orphan.  

In this episode, we discuss:

• The contrast between her parents’ personalities – mom (quiet, creative, cat-like), dad (gregarious, emotional, dog-like) - and which of those aspects Tyler carries forward in hers. 
• How writing, art, and community help her process grief. 
• One of Tyler's favorite questions about her parents.
• Why tangible keepsakes matter so much. 
• The difference having a parent die when you’re still a teenager vs an adult. 
• How her family approached her father’s illness and death compared to her mom’s.  
• Living with worry and fear about her own health and mortality. 

Follow Tyler’s work on Instagram @tylerfeder. 

When someone dies, the story is often one of sadness, longing, and loss. But what happens when the person who died was also someone who caused great harm? For Kathy, who was sexually and emotionally abused by her father, his death when she was 11 brought more relief than grief.

In this conversation, Kathy shares how her early experiences with grief and trauma shaped her path as a social worker and volunteer, including her current work with teens and tweens who are grieving.  

We explore:  

• What it was like to have her dad die while carrying the painful secret about his abuse
• The mixed emotions of grieving someone who caused great harm
• How volunteering gave Kathy a sense of purpose and visibility at a young age
• The importance of creating space for young people - and adults - to share the full range of feelings about the person who died, including the hard and complicated ones
• What Kathy would want her 11-year-old self, and other kids in similar situations, to know

Kathy’s story broadens our understanding of grief, reminding us that it’s never one-dimensional, and that sometimes, relief outweighs grief.  

Note: this episode includes references to childhood sexual and emotional abuse.