When Jessica Waite's husband, Sean, died suddenly, she knew him as a dedicated father to their young son and a loving, engaged spouse. In her book, The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards, Jessica reveals the shock and heartbreak of discovering Sean's double life. What began as a devastating loss quickly became even more complex as she uncovered the many secrets he had kept—hidden debt, drug use, and infidelity.
Jessica talks about the rage, confusion, and emotional turmoil of grieving someone you love while simultaneously reckoning with the truth of who they really were. She reflects on anger as a catalyst for change, what she learned about parenting her son through his grief, and how ultimately she found a way back to herself.
We disuss:
Resources & Links:
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Grief Out Loud is produced by the Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families. This podcast is sponsored in part by the Chester Stephan Endowment Fund. For more grief resources, visit dougy.org.
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Have thoughts on this episode? Email us at griefoutloud@dougy.org. Thank you for being part of our community!
In this episode we talk with Annie Sklaver Orenstein, author of Always A Sibling: The Forgotten Mourners. Annie talks about her older brother, Ben, who died when he was deployed in Afghanistan, and how his sudden death reshaped her understanding of grief and loss. They discuss the unique challenges of sibling loss and how Annie ultimately decided to write the book she wished she had when Ben died.
We Discuss:
Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Annie Sklaver Orenstein:
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In this episode, we talk with Ru Callender, author of What Remains: Life, Death, and the Human Art of Undertaking. Ru shares his personal experience with profound childhood loss to becoming a self-proclaimed radical undertaker. We also discuss the impact of grief at different life stages, how participation in funerals can be helpful for children, and reimagining rituals to accurately reflect the life of the person who died.
Main topics:
Resources Mentioned:
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Have thoughts about this episode? Email Jana at griefoutloud@dougy.org or connect with Dougy Center on social media. Don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to share what it means to you.
Grief can be shattering - and it can also reveal unexpected strength and resilience. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Sisler, award-winning sports broadcaster, ESPN Sideline reporter, and author of Shatterproof: How I Overcame the Shame of Losing My Parents to Opioid Addiction (and Found my Sideline Shimmy). Lauren shares her powerful story of losing her parents, who died within hours of each other during her freshman year of college, and how grief, fear, and shame, kept her from telling her story.
Lauren discusses:
The initial shock of loss.
How grief evolved for her over the years and the tools that helped.
The power of sharing her story and connecting with others who’ve experienced loss.
Insights from her book Shatterproof, including ways she's found to stay connected to her parents.
Follow Lauren on IG.
Thanks for Listening!
If you found this episode meaningful, consider leaving a review or sharing it with someone who might benefit from it. Let’s keep the conversation about grief going.
[This episode originally aired December, 2023]
This time of year can be grueling for anyone, but particularly for those who are grieving. So, each year we put out an episode to help you feel less alone and hopefully more equipped to traverse the next few weeks. Today's guest, Melissa Peede Thompson, M.S., is a Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center. While she has lots of professional knowledge in this realm, we asked her to talk about her personal experience of grieving during the holidays. Melissa was six when her sister died of gun violence. She was 13 when her father died in a motorcycle accident. And she was a young adult when her grandparents died. Each loss shaped - and continues to shape - how Melissa and her family approach this time of year.
We discuss:
If you missed our past Holidays & Grief episodes, be sure to listen to Ep. 27, 98, 174, 240.
And our latest one, 306.
Tips For Getting Through the Holidays & Holiday Plan Worksheet.
It's our annual holidays and grief episode! In the past we've focused on more tangible tips and suggestions for supporting kids, teens, and adults during this time of year. This year we decided to focus on one person's lived experience with how the holidays can get really awkward when grief is involved. Ana Salazar-Walsh was just nineteen when her father died in a mountain climbing accident. A few months later, it was the first holiday season after his death, but it was actually the third Christmas in a row shadowed by grief. Two years earlier, her father left their family to start a new one with a woman he had fallen in love with. All of this, combined with moving from Spain to the United States for college, made for three very uncomfortable and awkward holiday seasons. Now that Ana is married with her own children, she's finding ways to bring her father's memory into their holiday celebrations.
Looking for our past episodes about the holidays & grief?
Check out:
When Reshma Kearney's husband Sean died of suicide, her immediate concern was their three young children. She needed to figure out how to talk to them about his death - and his life - all while meeting their emotional and physical needs. Pretty quickly she realized her needs also had to be met so she could keep showing up for them. Reshma and her kids had an established mindfulness practice before Sean's death and those practices became integral for tending to their grief and finding ways to keep engaging with life.
Note: this episode discusses suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out. You can call 988 or text HELLO to 741-741.
Connect with Reshma on IG.
Listen to her kids on Ep. 303: Let's Hear It For The Kids - Grief In Their Own Words.
In May of 2024, Christine Passo's beloved dog, Maya Ray, took her last breath in Christine's arms. This wasn't the first time Christine experienced loss or trauma, but the grief she felt and continues to feel for Maya Ray caught her off guard with its intensity and depth. We talk about Maya Ray's last day, how Christine's other dog, Zoe, grieved, and how Christine and her partner are finding ways to continue honoring Maya Ray's life and her place in their family.
Christine Passo is a coach who specializes in supporting women through life changes, many of which come with grief. She is also the co-author of My Fur Baby Wrote This Book and host of the Unconscious Evolution podcast.
Be sure to check out our previous episode on grieving for a pet - Ep. 238 "These Relationships Matter."
In honor of Children's Grief Awareness month, we asked kids and teens to talk about grief in their own words. This compilation episode includes clips from children and teens reflecting on their people who died, their varied responses to loss, and what they hope grief will feel like in future.
Thank you to all the children and teens who contributed to this episode - and to their parents and caregivers for facilitating the recording process.
Want to learn more?
No one is perfect and no one is just one story, but how do you grieve when the person who died was so different than the person you fell in love with? When Jenn met and fell in love with Jesse, she never imagined their relationship would unravel due to his struggles with mental health and alcohol use disorder. Jesse died in 2020 and Jenn's been left to reconcile the man she loved with the one she eventually had to leave. His death also left her unsure where her grief fits in the world of bereavement and how to support their son, whose grief is complicated by the impact his father's illness had on their relationship.
Dr. Jennifer Vriend is a Licensed Clinical Child & Adolescent Psychologist and co-host of The Coping Toolbox podcast.
Susan Lieu, is a Vietnamese-American author, playwright, and performer. When Susan was 11 years old, her mother died from a routine plastic surgery. After she died, Susan's family stopped talking about her mother, leaving Susan on her own to figure out what happened and how to feel. Susan's debut memoir, The Manicurist’s Daughter, recounts her quest to get to know her mother, avenge her death, and try with all her might to get her family to open up about it all.
Susan is a compelling and accomplished storyteller, co-hosting The Model Minority Moms podcast and speaking at TEDx, the Smithsonian, and at universities and companies across the country. Her memoir is an Apple Book of the Month, most anticipated 2024 book by Elle Magazine and Goodreads, and has been featured on The New York Times, NPR Books, and The Washington Post. Read her press here.
Follow Susan on IG @susanlieu
It's our 300th episode and this conversation with Maegan Parker Brooks, PhD, is the perfect one to honor that milestone. Maegan is an Associate Professor at Willamette University and a volunteer at Dougy Center where she facilitates a peer grief support group for adult caregivers of teens who are grieving. Maegan is also a daughter and sister, grieving the deaths of her father, her sister Emily, and her mother. In this conversation we talk about grief and estranged relationships, relationships impacted by substance use, non-death losses, memorialization during the pandemic, and all the ways we talk to one another - and ourselves - about that grief.
Maegan Parker Brooks, PhD is an Associate Professor and Chair of the Civic Communication & Media Department at Willamette University. At Willamette, Maegan teaches courses in Death and Grief Communication and facilitates the Diversity of Loss grief support group. Beyond Willamette, Maegan co-facilitates a group for adult caregivers of grieving teens at The Dougy Center and she recently earned a certificate in Arts-Assisted Grief Therapy at the Portland Institute for Loss & Transition.
Kendra Rinaldi knows a lot about grief. When she was just 21, her sister died in a car accident. Ten years later she had a miscarriage. Ten years after that, her mother died of cancer. Professionally, she is a grief guide and host of the Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. But she didn't always get grief. When she was 21, she didn't realize that everything she was thinking, feeling, and experiencing after her sister's death counted as grief. In the years since, Kendra's gotten to know her grief well and uses that knowledge to support others.
We discuss:
Follow Kendra on IG @griefgratitudepodcast
Want to help with our special Children's Grief Awareness Month episode? If you have a child or teen in your world who is grieving a death who would like to participate, you can record a voice memo of them responding to one or more of the following prompts and email it to griefoutloud@dougy.org
Thank you for considering!
It might be better to ask Canada Taylor what she doesn't do in the realm of suicide prevention, postvention, and grief support rather than what she does because she seems to do just about everything and anything. This is part two of our conversation with her, so if you missed the first, Ep. 297: Honoring A Great Love, be sure to listen. In this episode, we talk about the holistic approach she takes to suicide prevention, intervention, and postvention. An approach that focuses on building a world worth living in. A world where youth - and people of any age - have their basic needs met and can access safety, community, and true belonging.
We discuss:
Since 2005 Canada Taylor has worked in behavioral health care serving youth and adults, with a focus in deathcare and helping families navigate grief, loss, and trauma amidst crisis. Relational, restorative, and transformative approaches are key underpinnings to Canada’s holistic, integrative philosophy to creating change and healing for all. Currently she is the Suicide Prevention Coordinator and Postvention Response Lead for the Multnomah County Health Department. Canada was honored with the Trillium Health Mental Health Hero award in 2021 and Multnomah County's Committee Choice Award in 2024 for her work in grief and suicide prevention. Grounding spaces in humor, authenticity, and vulnerability are essential to Canada’s professional and personal life, and especially her work in suicide prevention.
Organizations we reference:
School Crisis Recovery & Renewal Network (SCRR)
SAMSHA Black Youth Suicide Prevention Coalition
National Suicide Prevention Month
If you are someone you know is struggling, please reach out
Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: 988
BlackLine: 800.604.5841
LGBTQ National Hotline: 888.843.4564
Twelve years ago today - August 30th - Canada Taylor was having an amazing night. She and her husband Rick were sitting outside, talking about life and work and dreams for the future - their future. Then everything changed. Rick had a medical event, and Canada became his first responder. Hours later, she became his widow. In the twelve years since, things continued to change. Canada's two sons grew up and grew into their grief. She changed the course of her career - moving from behavioral health to suicide prevention and grief justice. Throughout all these changes, Canada has found ways to honor who Rick was in this world and the love they share.
We discuss:
Connect with Canada on IG @canadalauren and Linkedin
When Barri Leiner Grant was 28, her mother Ellen died suddenly. Barri was hit with intense grief, but back then the expectation was to hurry up and get back to work and life. She didn't have the time, space, or tools to acknowledge and attend to grief. Over the past 31 years, Barri and her grief have gotten to know each other on a deep level. In this long-term relationship, she's learned that her grief gets louder each time she reaches a new milestone or faces a transition. Even with that knowing, the grief can still find ways to catch her off-guard. Recently, one of those times was watching her daughter turn the same age Barri was when her mother died.
We discuss:
Barri Leiner Grant is the founder and Chief Grief Officer™, of The Memory Circle for grief support--a place and space she created in 2019, for those learning to live with loss. She left a longtime career as a journalist and motherloss peer guide, to pursue full-time work and training as a Certified Grief Coach and Educator. Connect with Barri on Instagram and Substack.
Sometimes we can't really begin to understand grief - ours or anyone else's - if we don't have space to talk about the death. The context surrounding how someone died matters and can shape our grief in meaningful ways. This was true for Kari Lyons-Price, MSW, who was a caregiver for her parents, Hal and Sylvia, for many years. They died three years apart, her dad in 2019 and her mom in 2022, and the circumstances of their deaths greatly impacted Kari and her grief.
We discuss:
In May of 2023, Sweta Vikram was overwhelmed with grief. In the span of three days, her father died, her father-in-law died, and it was the 9-year anniversary of her mother’s death. When she looked for information on how to survive the maelstrom of emotions, she found reassurances that she would eventually get to the other side, but nothing that showed her how to do that. So, Sweta set out to create the resource she was looking for and recently published, The Loss That Binds Us, a manual with 108 practical tips to survive and navigate grief.
Sweta Srivastava Vikram is an international speaker, author, and Ayurvedic Doctor who also teaches yoga and meditation.
Camille Sapara Barton is a social imagineer who is reimagining how we define and relate to grief. As a writer, artist, and somatic practitioner, Camille is looking to create a new grief narrative expansive enough to include multiple forms of individual and collective grief, especially for queer, trans, and BIPOC communities. In Camille's book, Tending Grief, they offer rituals and embodied practices for feeling into and metabolizing grief.
Be sure to check out Camille's new book, Tending Grief - Embodied Rituals for Holding Our Sorrow and Growing Cultures of Care in Community.
Cody Delistraty is a journalist and he's also a son whose mother died of cancer. These two identities intersect in his new book, The Grief Cure, which chronicles his quest to find a way to eliminate the pain of grief. After exploring Laughter Therapy, silent meditation, Breakup Bootcamp, and other avenues for grief expression, Cody landed where so many others do: realizing the "cure" for grief is allowing it to exist, while still engaging with life.
We discuss:
Cody Delistraty is a journalist and speechwriter in New York City. As a journalist, he has written stories, profiles and essays for The New York Times, The New Yorker and The Atlantic, among many others. He has served as culture editor at The Wall Street Journal‘s magazine and as features editor of the Paris-based magazine Mastermind.
It's impossible to speak for an entire community, especially when it comes to grief, but Sharice Burnett, LCSW, knows a lot about the ripple effect of loss in the Black and African American community in Portland, OR. Born and raised in the community, Sharice is a clinical mental health therapist and consultant dedicated to naming and dismantling the larger systemic barriers that stand in the way of Black children and families having access to culturally relevant support, particularly mental health and grief support.
We discuss:
This episode is the third and final in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.
Lisa Keefauver is a lot of things - she's a writer, speaker, educator, social worker, podcast host, mother, widow, and grief activist. She came to the last two titles when her personal experience of grieving for her husband Eric, who died of a brain tumor in 2011, intersected with her professional life as a clinician. At this intersection, Lisa realized just how grief illiterate the world is and how that illiteracy creates unnecessary suffering for those who are grieving. Lisa hosts the acclaimed podcast, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch and recently published her book, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss.
We discuss:
Lisa Keefauver is a grief activist, speaker and author. She began her career as a social worker and narrative therapist in 2004. She expanded her activism in a variety of roles: clinical director, non-profit co-founder, clinical supervisor, facilitator of personal and professional growth and healing, and mentor. Lisa's wisdom and insights on grief are also embodied from her personal losses, including the death of her husband Eric in 2011.
The Autism & Grief Project is a new online platform designed to help adults with autism navigate and cope with the complexities of grief arising from both death and non-death losses. Alex LaMorie, A.A.S is a member of the project's Advisory Board and brings his lived experience with both autism and grief to this work. Dr. Kenneth J. Doka, PhD, MDiv, brings years of both professional and personal grief knowledge to his role on the project's Development Team. The Autism & Grief Project is unique - just as grief and autism are unique - and the site provides information not only for adults with autism who are grieving, but also the people who are supporting them.
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Alex D. LaMorie, A.A.S is an undergraduate student at the University of Maryland Global Campus and autism advocate. Alex's expressive grief artwork was recently featured in the textbook Superhero Grief: The Transformative Power of Loss (2021, Routledge). He serves as an advisor on the Hospice Foundation of America's Autism & Grief Project. In his spare time, he loves movies and TV shows as well as traveling to Comic Con and Anime conventions with his older sister. Alex also loves creative writing and spending time with his New York family so he can eat the world's best pizza and bagels!
Kenneth J. Doka, PhD, MDiv, is Senior Vice President of Grief Programs at Hospice Foundation of America (HFA) and recipient of the 2019 Lifetime Achievement Award from the Association for Death Education and Counseling. He serves as editor of HFA’s Living with Grief® book series and its Journeys bereavement newsletter. He is a prolific author, editor, and lecturer; past president of the Association for Death Education and Counseling (ADEC); and a member and past chair of the International Work Group on Death, Dying, and Bereavement (IWG). In 2018, the IWG presented Doka with the Herman Feifel Award for outstanding achievement in thanatology. He received an award for Outstanding Contributions in the Field of Death Education from ADEC in 1998. Doka is an ordained Lutheran minister and a licensed mental health counselor in the state of New York.
This episode is the second in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.
Have you ever heard someone’s voice in your head and suddenly you're transported to a time and place when you were with them? This phenomenon is what Lissa Soep explores in Other People’s Words: Friendship, Loss, and the Conversations That Never End, her book about the intimacy of friendship and how words and language keep people with us, even after they die. After the deaths of her friends, Jonnie and Christine, Lissa found comfort in this idea of them living on through their words.
We discuss:
Lissa Soep is a senior editor for audio at Vox Media and special projects producer and senior scholar-in-residence at YR Media. She has a PhD from Stanford, where she first started writing about Bakhtin.
Cristina Chipriano, LCSW, Dougy Center's Director of Equity & Community Outreach and Melinda Avila, MSW, CEO of OYEN Emotional Wellness Center, are committed to changing the landscape of grief support for Latino families. They bring personal and professional grief experiences to the work of ensuring that every Latino family has access to dual language grief support that honors their cultural values.
We discuss:
This episode is the first in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.