When someone dies, our relationship with them doesn't just disappear. Sometimes the relationship changes in ways we never expected, allowing us to feel closer to them than we did when they were alive. This can leave us learning to grieve not just for what we had, but for what never got the chance to have with them. In this episode we talk with Never Faull about grieving for their father, who died in 2018 from cirrhosis of the liver. Nev shares how their relationship with their father was distant during his life and how they've found ways to create a deeper connection with him after his death. We also discuss what it was like for Nev, who came out as trans six months after their dad dies, to navigate grieving while also celebrating a new unfolding in their identity. 

Topics we discuss:

• Navigating grief in complex parent-child relationships
• The impact of undiagnosed autism on family connections
• Creating meaning and relationship after death
• The symbols and rituals that help Nev feel a connection with their dad's presence
• Queer and trans grief resources

Never Faull is a queer and trans, disabled, autistic BIPOC writer, photographer, facilitator, and grief tender based in Portland. they explore the intersections of memory, identity, and mourning in their creative work. their current project, The Dead Dad Camera Club, started with the camera their dad left behind, and has become a way to navigate grief through photos and storytelling. 

Resources Mentioned

• The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Queer Grief Club run by Jamie Thrower 
• Dead Dad Camera Club newsletter 
• Grief Out Loud contact: griefoutloud@dougy.org
• The Dougy Center website: dougy.org

This episode is the first in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

Daria Burke is an author, executive, and healer-at-heart. She's also a grandchild grieving for her grandmother and a daughter estranged from her parents. In this episode, Daria shares the profound impact of losing her maternal grandmother at age seven and how that early loss reverberated through her life. This loss and grief exist alongside the immense healing she's done around growing up in poverty, childhood trauma, and her parents' absences, addictions, and the eventual estrangement from them.

With the recent release of her memoir, Of My Own Making, Daria opens up about the moment, decades later, that reawakened the grief for her grandmother - finding a newspaper article about her fatal car accident. That discovery, and ensuing grief, started a new chapter in Daria's healing process. In our conversation, we talk about inherited trauma, the emotional weight of estrangement, the invisible grief of childhood neglect, Daria's healing practices, and how she  stays connected to her grandmother through what she calls “love taps.”

Key Topics:

• What role Daria's grandmother played in her early childhood

• The ongoing impacts of childhood grief and unprocessed trauma

• How truth-telling is part of healing

• The collective grief she grew up around in Detroit of the 1980's

• Uncovering the grief she buried after her grandmother died

• Grieving for family members who are still alive

Grief Practices Daria Shares:

• Giving herself permission to cry freely

• Meditative practices to connect with her grandmother

• Volunteering on holidays and creating new rituals

• Finding signs from her grandmother in the world around her

Daria Burke is an American writer, speaker and award-winning business leader. A marketer by trade and a seeker at heart, Daria is a storyteller and sense-maker, weaving together personal experience and the science of healing and transformation to explore new ways of understanding how we choose who we become. This passion led her to complete Dr. Tara Swart’s Neuroscience for Business course at MIT and Positive Psychology and Well-Being at Stanford, taught by Dr. Daryn Reicherter, an international expert in trauma psychiatry. 

Her debut memoir, OF MY OWN MAKING (April 2025) explores trauma, neuroplasticity, and Post-Traumatic Growth through the lens of her own healing journey. Kiese Laymon called it “as profound a book about the treacherous experience of befriending ourselves as I’ve read this decade.” Part memoir, part methodology, OF MY OWN MAKING blends personal narrative with scientific insight, Daria inspires readers to reimagine the narratives that define their lives.

Connect with Daria:

• Website: www.dariaburke.com

• Instagram: @dariaburke

Resources & Links:

• Dougy Center: www.dougy.org

• Email the show: griefoutloud@dougy.org

Production Note:
Grief Out Loud is produced by Dougy Center: The National Grief Center for Children & Families, and is supported in part by The Chester Stephan Endowment Fund.

Grief often arrives without warning and changes everything we thought we knew about ourselves, our families, and the world around us. In this episode, we talk with Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague about their new book, When Grief Comes Home, a resource created from years of both personal loss and professional experience supporting families who are grieving. Erin, founding Executive Director of Jessica’s House in Central California, and Colleen, Program Director, discuss how they came to write this book that blends memoir, practical tools, and reflective questions. 

We discuss:

• Erin's personal experience with grief including the death of her husband when their children were just 3 and 5 years old, her mother from suicide, and her son Carter, who died in an accident
• The unique impact of sudden loss 
• The power of rituals and expressive activities 
• What teens really need when they are grieving
• Strategies for returning to school and work
• Activites and discussion starters parents and caregivers can use to connect with their kids
• Learning to trust yourself in grief
• Making space for the dark parts of grief while also staying open to moments of light and joy

In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we welcome back Carla Fernandez, co-founder of The Dinner Party, to talk about her new book, Renegade Grief, in which she explores the question: "Now what? What are we supposed to do after someone dies?" Carla reflects on the death of her father, the unconventional paths she’s taken to process her grief, and how The Dinner Party came together from a desire to create non-traditional spaces for young adults navigating loss.

In this conversation we delve into the dominant narratives around grief — and how the few that do exist may not fit for most of us. From potluck meals to altar building, Carla shares creative ways people can honor their grief and build community at the same time.

We discuss:

• The inspiration behind Renegade Grief and why Carla wished this book existed when her dad died.
• How traditional grief support spaces often don’t work for young adults.
• The origin story of The Dinner Party, and how one dinner with friends who “get it” can change everything.
• Why food, memory, and grief are so deeply intertwined.
• The myth that grief gets “easier after the first year” — and why year two can be even harder.
• Grief rituals and care practices for both early grief and the long haul.
• Creating identity-based grief spaces, like LGBTQ+ and BIPOC tables, and why specificity matters in grief support.
• Finding joy, creativity, and unexpected connection through grief (without forced positivity).

Carla Fernandez is the co-founder of The Dinner Party, a community-driven organization that brings together grieving young adults for potluck dinners and meaningful conversations about life after loss. Her new book, Renegade Grief, is a practical and heartfelt guide to building personal rituals and support networks that meet you where you are — not where society says you should be.

Resources Mentioned:

• Renegade Grief (out March 11, 2025)
• The Dinner Party - Peer grief support for 20 to 45 year-olds
• The Grieving Brain by Mary-Frances O’Connor
• The Smell of Rain on Dust by Martín Prechtel
• The Death of My Two Fathers - Documentary by Sol Guy

Connect With Us:

• Dougy Center Website: dougy.org
• Email the Show: griefoutloud@dougy.org
• Listen to All Episodes: Grief Out Loud Podcast
• Follow us on Instagram and Facebook

In this episode, we talk with Judy Lipson, author of A Celebration of Sisters. Judy shares her journey of sibling loss, reflecting on the deaths of her sisters—Margie, who died of anorexia, and Jane, who died in a car crash—and how their absence shaped her identity. She opens up about the complexities of sibling grief, the impact of Margie's long battle with an eating disorder, and the moment when the grief she had pushed aside for so long finally caught up with her.

Through writing, ice skating, and organizing a fundraiser in their honor, Judy found ways to reconnect with her sisters and keep their memory alive. She also discusses the evolving landscape of sibling grief support and how sharing her story has helped others navigate their own losses.

We Discuss:

• Growing up as the middle of three sisters
• The shock of losing Jane when Judy was 25, and then Margie nine years later
• The challenges of grieving while balancing responsibilities
• How ice skating and philanthropy became outlets for her grief
• The changing landscape of sibling grief support
• What she’s most proud of in her grief process

Resources & Links:

• Judy Lipson’s Website: judylipson.org
• Subscribe to Judy’s Substack: judylipson.com
• Book: A Celebration of Sisters – Available on Amazon and local bookstores
• Dougy Center Resources: dougy.org

When Jessica Waite's husband, Sean, died suddenly, she knew him as a dedicated father to their young son and a loving, engaged spouse. In her book, The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards, Jessica reveals the shock and heartbreak of discovering Sean's double life. What began as a devastating loss quickly became even more complex as she uncovered the many secrets he had kept—hidden debt, drug use, and infidelity.

Jessica talks about the rage, confusion, and emotional turmoil of grieving someone you love while simultaneously reckoning with the truth of who they really were. She reflects on anger as a catalyst for change, what she learned about parenting her son through his grief, and how ultimately she found a way back to herself.

We disuss:

• The shock of uncovering a Sean's secrets after his death
• The role of anger in grief 
• Navigating single parenthood while managing the weight of betrayal
• The complexity of holding both love and hurt for Sean
• The social pressures to maintain the image of someone who has died
• How humor and writing helped Jessica process her experience

Resources & Links:

• Connect with Jessica Waite on Substack: The Widow’s Guide To
• Purchase The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards online
• Learn more about grief support at Dougy Center

Support Grief Out Loud:
Grief Out Loud is produced by the Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families. This podcast is sponsored in part by the Chester Stephan Endowment Fund. For more grief resources, visit dougy.org.

Join the Conversation:
Have thoughts on this episode? Email us at griefoutloud@dougy.org. Thank you for being part of our community!

In this episode we talk with Annie Sklaver Orenstein, author of Always A Sibling: The Forgotten Mourners. Annie talks about her older brother, Ben, who died when he was deployed in Afghanistan, and how his sudden death reshaped her understanding of grief and loss. They discuss the unique challenges of sibling loss and how Annie ultimately decided to write the book she wished she had when Ben died.

We Discuss:

• Annie’s relationship with her brother Ben and his role in her life
• The day Annie learned of Ben’s death and the immediate aftermath
• How grief intersected with anxiety
• The unique and often overlooked experience of grieving a sibling
• Writing Always A Sibling and the need for more grief resources for siblings
• The complexities of sibling grief in complicated relationships
• The impact of signs from Ben and how Annie learned to find comfort in them
• Navigating the question, "Were you close?"
• Coping with grief while navigating major life milestones, such as becoming a parent

Resources Mentioned:

• Annie Sklaver Orenstein’s book: Always A Sibling: The Forgotten Mourners (Available on Amazon, Bookshop.org, and local bookstores)
• Dougy Center's grief resources and support programs (www.dougy.org)

Connect with Annie Sklaver Orenstein:

• Instagram: @anniesklaverorenstein

Get in Touch with Us:

• Email: griefoutloud@dougy.org
• Website: www.dougy.org

Want to Support the Show?

• Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen
• Leave us a rating & review

In this episode, we talk with Ru Callender, author of What Remains: Life, Death, and the Human Art of Undertaking. Ru shares his personal experience with profound childhood loss to becoming a self-proclaimed radical undertaker. We also discuss the impact of grief at different life stages, how participation in funerals can be helpful for children, and reimagining rituals to accurately reflect the life of the person who died.

Main topics:

• Parental Loss and Early Grief: Ru reflects on the loss of his father at age 7 and his mother in his 20s, sharing how these defining losses shaped his perspective on death and grief.
• Boarding School and Emotional Austerity: The impact of being sent away shortly after his father’s death.
• Becoming a Radical Undertaker: After a chance encounter with a TV program, Ru was inspired to challenge conventional funeral practices and embrace more personal, inclusive rituals.
• Children and Grief: Why including children in funerals can be helpful, offering them tangible ways to process and revisit their grief.
• Radical Funeral Planning: Ru’s vision for end-of-life ceremonies, including his own desire for a midsummer funeral pyre, and how he helps families create ceremonies that resonate deeply.
• The Role of Grief in Life: How grief manifests and resurfaces, and the creative ways Ru has processed his own grief through rituals and art.

Resources Mentioned:

• What Remains: Life, Death, and the Human Art of Undertaking by Ru Callender
• Dougy Center’s grief support resources: www.dougy.org

Join the Conversation:
Have thoughts about this episode? Email Jana at griefoutloud@dougy.org or connect with Dougy Center on social media. Don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to share what it means to you.